Jackson Ng at Standards & General Purposes Committee, 16 October 2025

Purposes Committee Agenda, sorry, Meeting, sorry. You have the agenda in front of you. First of all, apologies for the time change due to a lack of rooms, but I'm grateful for all of you for being able to make it today. Agenda item number one, apologies. Do we have any apologies from councillors? We've had apologies from Councillor David Carroll. Thank you. Second agenda item, minutes. You have page three to six minutes from our last meeting. Do you have any comments on this? No. No, right, well, that's great because I've already signed it. Thank you. Agenda item number three, declarations of interest. Are there any from colleagues? Mr. Chairman, I'd like to declare a personal interest in item number four, is it? Yeah.

Councillor GON. Chairman, I also sit on outside bodies.

Same for me. Mr Chairman, I have a financial gain from the outside body. Noted, thank you.

Given a motion of transparency, I'm grateful for all colleagues for being so compliant. Have they all been noted? Great. Well, let's move on to the meat of today, which is the transparency motion that came before us in full council. Can I ask the officers to bring us through this? Thank you. Thank you. Members who were at that council meeting in July will recall that Councillor Wilson...

Thank you very much for the comprehensive report and for the verbal report today. Any questions, comments by colleagues? Councillor Townsend, and then... Sorry, just a question first. Do we know how many members...

Has there been any complaints or FOI requests to the Council in relation to outside bodies and councillors and remuneration or benefits? No. That you know of? There has not. Councillor Dixon. I would raise two issues. Number one, the simple fact that Glenn says he doesn't know how many.

Maidenhead was next, Mahone and then Matthews.

Thank you, Chairman. I think it's important, sort of drawing in what quite a few people have been saying, that there's one...

Thank you, Chair. So I don't think this should be left as a voluntary option that we should have full transparency for our residents.

I've listened to a lot of colleagues speak. I'm just going to share my thoughts on this. I think we all agree in this room we welcome transparency and we welcome engagement with democracy that were put here by the electorate. But I also take the view that councillors are grown up and we've signed up to being councillors. We know the code of conduct and there is only so much a council can do to effectively lay down a law and say, you must do this, you must do that. Because we know that if we were to do something that the electorate does not like or think of this liking to, well, our re -election chances are going to be quite slim. Let's put it that way. So that's where I'm coming from at the moment. But what I'm sort of slightly concerned about is, whilst I think we do need to deal with this at some point, I think it's good. I think it's good for transparency. I question the timing of this because, we could spend the next few months putting together a code of conduct. We could spend the next few months going back to the officers to come back with recommendations for a code of conduct. Let's bring it to this committee. Let's speak to other colleagues about it. And then it could be all overturned when the government says, well, actually, we're going to implement a standard code of conduct, which might just answer all our questions. So I think as councillors, we not only have a duty to think about transparency, but actually also think, well, what is a good use of taxpayers' money, which no one's talked about? Is it wise for us to use taxpayers' money to do something which at some point is possibly going to be overturned in a few months' time or maybe in a year's time by the time it's implemented? That's what I would just like to sort of throw out there because no one's raised the point about resources. Councillor Snate. Thank you. I've just done a couple of searches and I've just done in, you know, I'm...

Hyperlinked. How long would it take to implement this?

I would say not long at all. Once we've got the information back, it would be a matter of

There'll be a link to it. I mean, how does it do you need to go away and think about how to implement this and then come back to this committee effective for sign off?

In the line of.

Sounds like I'm arguing against a position. Please don't take it that way.

I'm quite keen for this important debate to be concluded by then, so we can keep it quite short, if possible. I'll be very quick. Councillor Mahoney, yeah. Thank you. If we were to change the code, how much is it going to cost the taxpayer? Just off the cuff.

Thank you very much. I'm very sorry, Councillor Mahaan, that you've never had that opportunity to speak to your residents.

I wouldn't hand on heart know the answer to that so I won't hazard an answer. Okay, no problem. Councillor Matthews. Just for clarification, if we did decide that this needed a change to the code and we affected that,

I hear the point about possibly things might change in two years' time.

I think that's a big issue, but can we just try to stick to points that perhaps new points, instead of re -articulating? We won't be finished by quarter past one anyway, will we? Sorry? We don't have to be finished by quarter past one. No, but I'm quite keen that every member is able to vote on this. Councillor Fountain and Phil Gome, Councillor Chouwer, and then Nahum. Thank you, Chairman.

I'm listening a lot to colleagues and trying not to talk. It's very hard not to, given my profession. But I'm sensing there is a mixture of options on table, page 11, essentially, of the report. Basically, I hear colleagues saying B, I hear colleagues saying C, D and E. Now, it's my job as chairman to try to bring together a happy committee where I can and try to find compromise, which serves the best interests of our constituents. But also bearing in mind the resources that we have. So I wonder if there's a way we can sort of, I know there was an opening in December, the committee, understanding there's nothing in the agenda for the December one. Indeed. Okay, great. So I was just wondering whether we could, you know, as a matter of urgency, recommend B, and then sort of ask the officers to utilize the time in December to come back so that we can debate further. with C and D and E, perhaps with the input from the monitoring officer as to what could be achieved on D and E in terms of the monitoring officer's recommendations in terms of wording, should we wish to change the code of conduct. I think that would be a compromise and would put us in a much more informed position to proceed because the government could come back in the next few months and give us a more concrete timetable in relation to the code of conduct. Those are my views, but I see a few hands coming up. Okay. Councillor Dixon, I saw your hand up first. Please. Which Dixon? Which Dixon? Oh, sorry. That's Tim Dixon. Of course. Thank you. I'm aware that this is a public meeting and you've just gone through a list of...

And that's 7b, which is no recommendation to the code but self -inclusion to register could be an option required as it has been previously. The committee may or may not choose to include a steer on the matter under its agreement to provide general advice or guidance on ethical standards. My recommendation is we do provide a steer. We ask the officers to remind councillors that they should think about transparency and they should perhaps include it as a self -declaration. C is the committee could choose to wait for the outcome of the government's review into local standards and the potential mandatory minimum code of conduct. At the point of implementing any required change, the committee could then choose to amend the code as required. I think this is the option where we say, well, let's wait for the government to come back with a code of conduct, which might happen in the next 6 to 12 months, and at which point we'll have to follow their mandatory conduct. But I think that could be sort of, we could see what happens in December. Then as the amended motion suggests, there may be no mandatory changes to the code recommended, but the committee could ask the monitoring officer to consider other methods of achieving transparency. This could be achieved in various ways, such as linking to allowances slash expenses paid by outside bodies on our website or another mechanism. This is where we sort of talked about how we could go away. The mandatory council would come back and see, talk about putting links onto individual councillor website profiles or a general website, which could be, you know, come up in any Google or AI searches. Then there is E, which is members may recommend amending the code as described in the original motion to make it an obligation for members to declare the monetary value for allowances slash expenses received from outside bodies on their register of interest. This could be achieved by recommending an amendment to the code of conduct. Subsequently, this would then be referred to the full council for their consideration. Now, that, again, I'm saying, let's go back, utilise the time in December, get the monitoring officer to give us her recommendation, perhaps with wording, if we were to go down that route, and then we can come back and debate whether we, you know, include a few words or include more words or redraft, you know, particular paragraphs. So those are what I'm saying, well, let's try to find a compromise which addresses all our issues and concerns together. I know it's that quite a lot. OK. Councillor Dixon, the other Dixon. Please. Mr Chairman, I don't think that that summarises what's been said here.

E -mail tomorrow. But B is what we're really doing. No, no, no. Well, we can emphasise it. We can make the wording slightly more specific. E will take some time because the wording needs to be, well, I would ask that the monitoring officer comes back with wording, then needs to come back to this committee and then go out to full council. We're understanding differently. I think B is exactly the same as what we've got now and E is the motion. Go ahead. What I'm...

In some respects I think we have suggested some of the wording could be in any case... Is it in the motion? Is it in the motion? Yes, I think it is. Yeah. Could I? Yes. Sorry. Sorry, just to clarify, what I meant was today we could do a vote on E and then between now and full council...

That's the monitoring. Well, you could say you could agree that we have to bring it back to another meeting that you're happy with. However, you'll see from the motion, the first motion, it gives an example as to how that could be. The Council resolves, so that's Annex 1 to the report, at the end of the motion says the Council resolves 1 to request.

So thank you Chair. I've been waiting for my turn. I propose that we go for option E today and we vote on it for a change of the code of conduct.

Can I hear from Councillor Chouva first as well? Yes, thank you, Chairman. I do have a query about...

No. So I've made a proposal. On that basis, sorry, I just want to clarify. On that basis.

We should have been seconded. Right. Do we have to take a vote on it now? Or can I, do we do it as a debate? Can it go on? Because I think other councillors are sort of looking to speak. But other councillors want to leave. To the extent that you have had a proposal and a second, you can debate what...

I don't think, I think we've had the debate for close to an hour and there's been very, very good debate, discussions and we've heard from all points of views. I think let's go to a vote. There is a motion. It's been seconded.

So that motion will now go forward to full Council as a recommendation from yourself, a debate at Council. Thank you. Councillor Phil Gomm, thank you very much. Thank you, sir. And Council, ensure the rest of the afternoon. Thank you. And thank you very much for allowing Councillor Gomm to have a vote and leaving. Right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Now, agenda item number five, which is always a staple agenda item. Some colleagues might have some interest in following certain councillors, but if necessary, I'm happy to have another meeting outside of this meeting if further details are required. But can I ask the officers to take us through the complaints quarter to review? Yes, sir. You'll be familiar with the format now. Quarter to leave complaints are listed in the report. Since...

Any questions? Councillor Thompson. Are you able to provide any...

Okay, sorry. Any other questions, comments in relation to this? Councillor Karen Dixon. In terms of comments, can I just thank the monitoring team?

Any other comments, questions? Councillor Baitman. Thank you, Chair. So with regard to the one that is outstanding, do we feel...

Any other comments, questions for officers? No? Okay, well, thank you very much, officers. Now, just moving on to the work programme, page 45 to 46. Essentially, do we have any comments? There is an empty slot in December, as I indicated earlier. So as it stands, it's probably going to be completely empty unless we find something to fill it. But otherwise, you know, what's coming before us is effectively, on the 22nd of January, a quarter free review in terms of the Code of Conduct complaints. And then in 2026, April, another annual review. It was a quarterly, now the April one's annual. So nothing really heavy on the agenda unless, so we're effectively waiting for the government to come back on the Code of Conduct. Okay. Any comments, questions on this? That's all I would say on the work programme, generally speaking. I'm not saying it should be for December or sometime. Thank you.

Suggestions what you want to feel on the 4th of December, do write to me and the officers and we'll see whether it's appropriate to utilise that time. If not, are there anything else, officers? Do we ask now for a name to be recorded or after the meeting? After the meeting. Names to be recorded for the vote.

Those against who would like their name recorded.

Those abstaining. That's fine. Now, date of the next meeting, 4th December 2025, 10 o 'clock, provisionally. And we'll be sort of waiting with a base of breath. It's what you might suggest we field the agenda with. I'm sure the officers are as well, and then we'll discuss it internally. Otherwise, thank you very much for coming. Meeting closed. Thank you. Thank you. Cheers.